ITIL exams dropped from Prometric: consider ISO20000 certification as an alternative?

Blog entry submitted by skeptic on Thu, 2008-03-06 09:00. [nid:484]
in

The March edition of the IT Skeptic's newsletter, the Skeptical Informer, went out and it included the statement:

The certification industry still seems to have an attitude of "F*** the quality of teaching! Maximise profits!"

A little strong? That was before I knew that ITIL exams have been withdrawn from Prometric (a respected online provider of certifications). You should have heard me then!

It seems to be true. ITIL has gone from the Prometric site. I saw it reported on the Datamation forum. As that forum points out, ISO20000 is on Prometric so consider this for an alternative personal certification.

No matter how hard you self study, to the best of my knowledge you now have to pay a vendor for training before you sit the ITIL Foundation exam.

According to someone who knows, EXIN may have been a bit premature in putting ITIL V3 exams on Prometric, and they have been taken down "until all Examination Institutes have received a copy of the database of questions and can then reach their own agreement with Prometric or other testing companies". Does that imply that the exams to date have been beta status?

Anyway, the implication is that ITIL will be back on Prometric sometime. There are plenty of vendors who would rather this didn't happen but I can't see how they can stop it. I'll bet they can delay it though.

Bookmark this post with:
  • Delicious
  • Digg
  • Google
  • StumbleUpon
  • Yahoo
  • Reddit
  • Facebook
  • Propeller
  • Magnoliacom
  • Newsvine
  • Furl
  • Rojo
  • Technorati
  • Icerocket

Comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Open Exams

Submitted by Visitor (not verified) on Thu, 2008-03-06 11:04.

Completely agree about the online exams being removed. Last time I checked it wasn't clear whether the V2 Foundation exam was V2 or V3 which I'm sure has lead to confusion.
In the UK there is an opportunity for self-study and then attending the Open Exam days run by APMG.
http://www.apmgroup.co.uk/ITIL/ITILOpenCentreExams.asp

someone please set me right

Submitted by skeptic on Sat, 2008-03-08 20:02.

I'm not sure I'm right here - EXIN and ISEB are still on Prometric. A search on Prometric for "ITIL" yields nothing much, so at the very least Prometric your user interface sucks guys, but is ITIL V3 Foundation online certification available via Prometric? if I'm wrong or off beam here, someone please set me right.

Exams on Pro-Metric etc.

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Sun, 2008-03-09 09:40.

The V2 exams have always been available on Pro-Metric. The V3 exams were made available, then this was suspended, as further moderation was required before results were released.We were told this should be only temporary (in February) so I would expect it to end very soon.

Exin, ISEB and Pro-Metric are taking stick on this although it is completely out of their hands.
Expect the same to happen with each new V3 qualification
Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

ISO 20000 Alternative to ITIL

Submitted by Visitor (not verified) on Sun, 2008-03-16 22:28.

"Anyway, the implication is that ITIL will be back on Prometric sometime. There are plenty of vendors who would rather this didn't happen but I can't see how they can stop it. I'll bet they can delay it though."

Yes, this stinks to high heaven. The stench of APMG that is, on behalf of their buddies.

Never mind access for the public. Never mind the benefits for those who like self study. Never mind anyone, except for the leaches who want to drag more and more profit out of ITIL.

Hopefully ISO 20000 will take off, and hurt ITIL cert badly. I suspect it will, and the sooner the better.

ISO20000 has been pretty slow so far

Submitted by skeptic on Sun, 2008-03-16 22:46.

ISO20000 has been pretty slow so far. Just like ITIL V3, the only real interest is the big end of town. I suspect a bad mis-fit to the market's requirements. Will blog on this one day

It takes time

Submitted by aroos on Tue, 2008-03-18 16:38.

It is not so easy to be certified, especially if you want to take it seriously. I have recommended ISO 20000 as a long term goal. It is not realistic short term goal for those who are struggling with the basic processes. ISO 20000 is a useful benchmark or yardstick. Actual certification is not important for internal organizations but they should try to achieve that level.

Certification can be highly contagious. First some service providers start using their certificate in marketing. Next phase is that the requirement appears in requests for offers and then all providers in the marketplace have to get it. In the third phase management wants to now why their internal IT department does not have the certificate that everybody is talking about.

ISO 20K certification

Submitted by Christophe De Boeck on Sun, 2008-04-13 07:55.

From what I have been told (I have to admit I have no ISO20K exam experience) the certification is not a gift, but I do not like the flexibility that's offered: In Holland, EDS has received the certification for one service for one customer ... I believe they (EDS) are not allowed to promote this certificate for other goals - given the specific and limited(?) achievement, but I think that area is very grey ...

This sounds to me as a "quick win" kind of compromise in order to obtain a minimum buy in from larger companies. If this is the way the ISO20K game needs to be played, I can't hide my doubts regarding the survival or even influence potential in the long run ...

Again, I am not an expert so I would love to stand corrected on the subject

Scope of certification

Submitted by JamesFinister on Sun, 2008-04-13 08:33.

Christophe,

ISO are working on some guidance in this area. It is the responsibility of the certifying body to ensure the scope statement is accurate and clear and for the auditor to make a professional judgment about the applicability of the standard. There is some additionnal ISO guidance in the pipeline about the acceptable scope when part of a service is outsourced, and whether certification can be attained by the outsourcer or by the customer organisation. The key is that whoever is certified has to agve fill managment control over all the processes for a service.

A situation that has been highlighted, as an example, is where a supplier does provide all the processes, but not to all their customers. As an example they might provide a help desk as part of their service portfolio, but a customer might source their helpdesk from another supplier. Could they then still claim certification for the service they provide to that customer?

The quick win approach could be a valid one, if for instance you want to apply ISO/IEC 20000 to a new service you are introducing or a new contract. Or it could be, as one organisation I've worked with, that you treat the ISO 20000 services as an elite part of your service so that other service aspire to "join the club".

What is obviously not acceptable is to obtain certification for a small standaone service, and then portray to the world that it applies to all the services you offer.

Perish the thought

Submitted by skeptic on Sun, 2008-04-13 09:18.

ooh imagine the marketing people from such a company - certified ISO20000 in one small area - implying that they were generally an ISO20000 company. I'm sure that would never happen. After all it has never happened with any certification before has it? i mean like, say, marketing people saying their products are ITIL "certified" by PinkVerify for example...

And I can't imagine their presales people ever casually dropping into a presentation how "we were recently ISO20000 certified in Holland" without stopping the presentation to ensure the audience clearly understood the finer nuances of that certification.

Perish the thought.

APMG's buddies?

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Sun, 2008-03-16 23:13.

On the contrary, it is APMG who is pushing for exams to be sat after self-study. All the new exams will be multiple-choice. You will need to have followed an accredited course, but this can be through distance learning. Multiple-choice may not give any indication as to whether anyone could actually begin to put any of this stuff into practice, but it is cheap to mark - so more profit for APMG. The training companies - the "leeches" - (many of whom, in the UK at least, are very small - 1 or 2 trainers, plus associates when required) will be competing with distance learning. No-one knows how much classroom classes (our business!)will suffer. Self Study obviously has a part to play, but in my biased opinion, the interaction with other students, as well as with the tutor, make classroom courses the better option.

I have yet to find anyone who would admit to being one of APMG's buddies!

Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

Distance learning is not self study

Submitted by skeptic on Mon, 2008-03-17 01:13.

Sorry Liz. i have to disagree on this one. i think we disconnect on what constitutes self study. An accredited course is not self-study. the distance learning providers still constitute part of APMG's customer base. Distance learning is not self study.

If someone is from the third world where even for well-paid IT people an ITIL course represents a month's pay, or if someone is smart enough to teach themsleves from the books and doesn't see why they should pay for training, then why should certification not be distinct from training.

i'll tell you why: because it is only in the interests of the trainees. it represents lost revenue.

oh, i agree that better trainees are produced from formal training courses. But that should be the buyer's option. Ultimately the exam represents the benchmark and if someone can exceed it without training, good on them I say.

Self-Study

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Mon, 2008-03-17 07:57.

I absolutely accept that self-study is a valid, and sometimes only decision for many. I was questioning who benefits from APMG's rules, and it is APMG who benefits. Very few training companies will produce distance learning courses. If passing the exams is hard, then every re-sit benefits APMG.
Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

APMG's Buddies

Submitted by Visitor (not verified) on Mon, 2008-03-24 22:10.

["If someone is from the third world where even for well-paid IT people an ITIL course represents a month's pay, or if someone is smart enough to teach themsleves from the books and doesn't see why they should pay for training, then why should certification not be distinct from training."]

This is 100% correct. And it is what APMG hate, because they cannot squeeze their profit out of the situation.

It is why they have made it so hard to self-study, with latest twist being the scandalous Prometric withdrawel.

Drip by drip they are killing ITIL in the name of greed.

I still cannot believe the stupidity of the OGC in giving it to them, given that the whole process was showcased with the failure of Prince2.

How does APMG benefit?

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Mon, 2008-03-24 22:42.

Of course anyone can teach themselves from the books - and congratulations to those who do - I find that approach hard. But APMG makes no money from training courses - these are provided by accredited training organisations, who are accredited by one of the Examination institutes. APMG makes money from people sitting exams - and they make that money whether it is Pro-metric or an invigilated exam at the end of a course. APMG controls the questions for ALL exams. I am sure that they are very keen for the exams to be on Pro-Metric, because they will make their % on every exam sat. What they do NOT want is for exams to be restricted to invigilated sessions, or exams needing expensive moderation, because they have failed to get the quality right.

APMG want lots of people to sit the exams - and if they fail to resit them. That is how they make money.
I do not disagree with the remark about APMG's approach, but the Pro-metric withdrawal dammaged their income.
Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

APMG's key constituencies

Submitted by skeptic on Mon, 2008-03-24 23:15.

I'm not sure and I'd like to hear more. i find it unlikely that the ATOs pay nothing for accreditation, so one of APMG's key constituencies does not like self-study. Even if a simple revenue calculation shows one thing, the politics of the environment in which APMG operates will show another

Cost of accreditation

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Tue, 2008-03-25 01:07.

ATOs do pay for accreditation, but this money does not go to APMG. It goes to whichever examination institute gives you the accreditation. For ISEB, for 3 years it is £3000. You may be accredited with ISEB or EXIN or Loyalist or Dansk or Loyalist or APMG-the-Examination-institute (as opposed to APMG the Accreditor.) The Examination Institutes will lose money as a result of no longer setting or marking papers, but just ordering exams from APMG.

As an ATO, of course I believe in class-based teaching, but I am do not consider myself to be one of APMG's constituencies! far from it.

Richard Pharro, the MD of APMG attended a session of the ISEB Accredited Training Organisations last week. The Q&A session, although polite, clearly showed that we are not in thrall to APMG - instead there was a lot of criticism about lack of consultation, poor quality control etc.

Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

APMG's revenue base

Submitted by skeptic on Tue, 2008-03-25 03:40.

Yes to be precise the trainees pay the ATO who pay the EI who pay APMG. I missed out one step in the chain, but ultimately I believe training is still a significant part of APMG's revenue base.

V3 Foundation Exam on Prometric

Submitted by Claire Hicks (not verified) on Mon, 2008-03-17 08:55.

I've recently had an email from Exin stating that the V3 exams will be back on Prometric on April 10th.

I understand the withdrawal was due to APMG's syllabus revision early this year, which also led to the mix of questions in the exams being changed. (Less Strategy, more Operation)

Claire

Count one for the Expert Diploma!

Submitted by ianclayton on Mon, 2008-03-17 11:52.

Well I can safely say the Manager Bridge is a doozy! I passed but it was ruddy tough - requires photographic memory of all aspects of the five books and frankly I am not sure I know how to design a class of 4 days to get folks through. My take is that this is the perfect course for online study - about 6-9 months! Any other experiences out there on this?

Oh by the way, recent announcements of my untimely demise (sorry - departure from ITSMI - the company I FOUNDED - not co-founded) are true. I've decided to do my own thing for a while and pay the rent by showing folks how Lean Thinking can dramatically improve the chances of a successful service management project. Its nice to get back out there amongst my customers. I also put on 20lb writing books - that did not sit well with my chair or my wife!

If you want to find me you can at ian@servicemanagement101.com

See you in Holland Skep!

Ian M. Clayton, ITIL Service Manager, CSMP, ITSM Master, ITIL V3 Expert Diploma (!)
itSMF USA Lifetime Award Recipient 2005

memorising the sacred texts

Submitted by skeptic on Mon, 2008-03-17 21:15.

A case of "memorising the sacred texts", eh?

Managers Bridge Course

Submitted by Bordewijk on Tue, 2008-03-18 10:07.

Congratulations. I passed on one of the pilot exams in December. I agree it is not easy. Currently we are running a pilot for the Manager's Bridge Course I designed. What I try to do is NOT cover all details required by the syllabus. Of course I discuss the topics, but mostly I let delegates discover the materials themselves by asking them to explain pictures to me and the rest of the class. Also, I let them read certain parts of the book (such as a part on Governance) and then explain it in 30 seconds. Yes, it is very much an exam preperation type of course.
I did the same with the group I preperad (along with myself) for the pilot exam...and we all passed. Certainly we are well-informed trainers, but still there is no evidence this shouldn't work.

Anyhow, preparing for this exam is something that, just like to good old ITILv2 Service Manager's examination needs a lot of self study. I do see added value in the class-based course. Discussing etc. makes you understand it (or at least understand the author's points of view), e.g. with the diagrams.

Maarten Bordewijk
Getronics PinkRoccade

shouldn't be compulsory

Submitted by skeptic on Tue, 2008-03-18 19:21.

There is added value in the class-based course indeed but it shouldn't be compulsory.

Compulsory

Submitted by Bordewijk on Wed, 2008-03-19 07:28.

in a knowledge based certification system, no class should be compulsory in my opinion. If you really want to train and certify competencies on the other hand...

Maarten Bordewijk
Getronics PinkRoccade

ISEB V3 exams now on Prometric

Submitted by Liz Gallacher on Tue, 2008-04-01 06:07.

I heard yesterday from ISEB that the V3 exams are now available on Prometric.
Liz Gallacher
Freelance Trainer and Consultant

V3 exams on Prometric

Submitted by skeptic on Tue, 2008-04-01 07:06.

yup, see here :D

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Syndicate content