The IT Skeptic - Comments for "ITIL exams dropped from Prometric: consider ISO20000 certification as an alternative?"

ITSM according to ISO/IEC 20000 Professional Levels

LaurensG — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:34:57 +0000

EXIN and TÜV SÜD Akademie have developed the Professional Level (5 modules) in 2008 which some training providers are already offering. Also, most of them are now preparing their courses for accreditation and more training offerings are to be expected in 2009.

Indeed the professional level is a necessary step in between to become an auditor. As a prerequisite for the internal auditor training & exam one is expected to have both knowledge and understanding of the ISO/IEC 20000 and ITSM in general. In practice this means one has to pass at least the professional exam for managing and improving plus two of the professionals for the process areas. If you have already certificates in either auditing or ITSM you can shorten your path by one of the many Side Entry routes in this program.

Best regards,

Laurens
EXIN

On the money

JamesFinister — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:38:07 +0000

And I'm looking at the ISO 20000 PRMs and PAMs as we speak

15504-8 may help?

John Worthington aka MySvcMon — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:03:00 +0000

My understanding is that the ISO/IEC 15504 standard is a 'harmonizing' standard for process assessment, and that ISO has proposed a suite of related standards and reserved numbers for the suite as a whole. The proposed framework would have multiple ISO 15504-conformant products that would be submitted for endorsement as a 'Publicly Available Specification (PAS). This would include measurement framework, Process Reference Models and Process Assessment Models.

Seems to me that IOS15504 and specifically the planned 15504-8 (based on ISO20K) would seem to be a big help, even for customers who were not planning on ISO certification but wanted to measure progress. See more at
Exit Here for Standards-Based Process Assessment

John M. Worthington
MyServiceMonitor, LLC

based on what???

jvbon — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 13:42:54 +0000

Why would an institute like EXIN develop a professional level exam in ISO20k?

Based on what: on 15 pages of text? The only serious value-add book on ISO20k is the Introduction. For practitioners you may look at the Roadmap book. But those are not 'official' books, they just represent best practice guidance. Still, you find these and other books in the Literature list of the exams (even though they are erraneously attributed to the wrong authors....)

And based on what business case? As long as everyone still runs blindly after the ITIL machine, ISO20k will not stand a chance - despite of its quality. It's like the story of Sony's Betamax video standard versus JVC's VHS. The VHS system won that battle, but not because it was better....

EXIN obviously is interested in stimulating a market here: not because there is a decent business case, but because people need to be able to choose in an open market.

Exin has the Exams

aroos — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:43:00 +0000

The professional level exams are available, see http://www.exin-exams.com/exams/exam-program/iso-iec-20000.aspx

RE: ISO 20K & ITIL Cert Schemes

ITIL PMP — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:41:10 +0000

Fellow Skeptics:
Does anyone have an idea when Exin / ACPs will be inclined to offer ISO 20000 "Professional Level" certifications per their Certification Scheme? It is really hard to believe Auditors have any credibility if the "scheme" allows a direct path from Foundation to Auditor. On the ITIL "maximize profits" perspective: Absolutely correct - I am convinced their process is modelled after U.S. financial institution scams!

EXIN, ITSM & The Standard

LaurensG — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:50:09 +0000

Dear Ian, James, and all other readers of this wonderful blog,

In the midst of this highly interesting discussion on ITSM, the ISO/IEC 20000 standard and EXIN's latest qualification program ('ITSM according to ISO/IEC 20000'), I hope to contribute a little bit by trying to explain the program's intention and benefits.

Basically, the qualification program is about IT Service Management, based on best, real or super practices (not limited to any framework in general), with the ISO/IEC 20000 standard for good measure. Because for instance a foundation student only needs to learn the essentials and get a set of acquired skills immediately. This is something EXIN had envisaged when the ITIL V2 foundation exam was introduced in 1994.

Our qualification program is certainly not aimed at company ISO certification; although this could be useful, real quality starts with the people that operate the company. Quality comes bottom up and the EXIN program acknowledges that. A common understanding among all staff involved in IT services is a key success accelerator of the quality approach towards IT Service Management. ISO standards have of course proven to place great emphasis on customer needs, expectations and improving business performance through delighting the customers. Organizations that have trained staff at all levels will not only gain the most success, but will also reach certification, if aimed for, easier and faster.

So, to get back to the discussion, the EXIN ITSM qualification program is not about getting a company ready for ISO/IEC 20000 certification (although it can help); it is about improving the quality and performance of ITSM in an organization, with measurable results.

What are the the benefits?

• Role based:
Preparing students for a real life role in IT service provision, aimed at enlarging practical ITSM skills. Learn today, do it tomorrow!
• Framework neutral:
Focused on the essential quality requirements for IT service management as defined in the international standard ISO/IEC 20000
• International:
Developed by EXIN and TÜV SÜD Akademie under supervision of an international committee (Jenny Dugmore, Erin Casteel, Lex Hendriks and many more) and globally available in multiple languages
• Flexible:
Easy to hop on with your ITIL (V2 or V3) certificates and various other interesting side entries in the program
• The program has been officially accredited for the ISO/IEC 17024 standard for qualification and is the winner of the ITSMF Innovation Award 2008

We are inviting everyone to discuss our ideas relating to ITSM, best practices and the standard on the LinkedIN group: 'ITSM according to ISO/IEC 20000'.

We very much appreciate all the support we are getting for the program and we hope to support the community in taking IT Service Management to a higher quality level, continually.

Regards,

Laurens
EXIN

How to pass multichoice exams

skeptic — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 10:25:00 +0000

The application of a defined process, some logic, some intelligence, and a moderate knowledge of the subject allows one to pass most multichoice exams.

I'd love to prove this myself but I'm too poor right now to do ITIL courses. Instead I will attempt to prove another assertion: that lack of ITIL certifications need not hold one back from getting work. I fear the hypothesis fails at the current levels of competition for jobs. Last opportunity I went for I counted at least three ITIL Masters bidding against me (it's a small pond, Wellington - everybody knows).

Sorry

aroos — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:49:44 +0000

The nationality was not meant to be negative. Everyone who has been teaching ITIL and ISO 20000 to me has been Dutch. The point was that they came from a different culture than the trainees. Being an expert on ITIL does not make one an expert in managing people. I think one should have some experience in managing managers or special education before one could really do ICA's and that is not a requirement.

I agree about the higher level Multi-choices. According to Exin statistics, these new intermediate exams are very easy, pass percentages are quite high. What do these certificates prove?

Here Here!

JamesFinister — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:42:34 +0000

At Sunningdale, running the courses in conjunction with Quint, we took the ICA very seriously, even though I was only 28 in those days!

Online exams

pjotrg — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:29:38 +0000

EXIN offers online exams. You can go every day of the week to Utrecht and pass your exam online there or contact an EXIN Accredited Exam Center to pass your exam.
The AEC's have, as far as I know, freedom in accepting or refusing you if you come for an exam session only. The great advantage (compared to Pearson Vue or Prometric) of EXIN online exams is that if an exam exist in your local language, it's also available via the online exam feature.

The possibility of taking an exam without having followed training is restricted to the Foundation and Foundation Bridge exams

I object ! (being a Dutchman !!! )

pjotrg — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:09:58 +0000

Hi Aale,
The fact that the ICA sometimes is not well performed should not disqualify the mechanism. Trainers a Service Management Level should (according to me) be experienced professionals with a broad background. I strongly object to the fact that you write in the same sentence "young and Dutch". The fact that someone is Dutch cnould be an advantage as the Dutch are pretty well ahead in ITIL experience compared to other countries (my reference for the moment is France, which is on average running behind 10 to 15 years in ITIL maturity to the Dutch). Yound or old dos not say anything either. In my last ITIL Service Manager class I had a 28 year old guy who wat far more mature then some much older participants.

ICA is a lot of work, but then a Service Manager traning is not the cheapest. I think the ICA mechanism (and we talk about lots of things in those ICA conversations) adds value. I just think it's a pitty that APMG dropped the mandatory 2nd trainer for the Service Manager training.

Assessing a higher level of competence just by Multi Point Choice is ridiculous in my opinion, but as Skep wrote before: The Lords Of ITIL in Castle ITIL and the moneymachine in training business are not willing to pay that anymore. On the other hand I must say though that those scenario based MPC are indeed interesting, but not enough!

Tidy up

JamesFinister — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:28:50 +0000

Dare I say the activity going on is evolution not revolution?

As I mentioned in the earlier post the capability model it will be aligned with is ISO15504 which also defines an approach to assessment.
There will also be greater alignment with ISO 12207, 9001 and 15288.

Whilst 20k was fast tracked it had a long gestation period - going back at least to the BSI P0005 Code of Practice from 1998. The main result of the fast tracking has been that the language does not always conform to ISO's strict editing rules that strive to avoid ambiguity. Those who are involved in the process would, I suspect, all agree with me that ISO time scales are positively glacial

I think it was Jan who said ITIL and ISO 20000 don't by themselves meet the real needs of customers.

ISO20k refresh?

ianclayton — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:10:23 +0000

James
Thanks. So its a refresh? Again how does the addition of a capability maturity model 'align it with other ISO standards'? I have yet to find one in another standard - if anyone knows of one please post teh url here.

My understanding is that there is a 'standard' method for developing standards and that fast-tracked standards, of which BS15000/ISO20k is one, bypass this method and eventually need to be refitted... BSI17799 is a great example of what happens following 'fast-tracking'... the industry is subjected to multiple refits over 3, 5 or even more years.

No I am not saying ITIL and ISO20k fail customers - else I would have said it in my blog. All I have asked for a number of years now, and from folks involved in the standards development and auditing process - is if there is a single, consistent set of requirements used to conduct audits....

If so, where is it, and is the guidance we hear of in publications and posters grounded in that same set of requirements?

I'll leave the question as to why fast tracking is allowed given the consequences it obviously has on certification scheme for another day...

ISO20000 poster

jvbon — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:48:12 +0000

We use the ISO20000 poster in practical cases and classrooms: the poster shows all the activities, inputs, outputs, shalls and shoulds, in one over-all A1-size paper, with red/yellow/green stickers. It also shows all the implicit consequences in the very same sheet. This way you can visualize your progress and your coverage in a self-assessment. Works great, although you need a pair of good eyes to read all the details :-(

The standard itself

aroos — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:50:42 +0000

My approach to this is that I have listed all shalls from the standard text and check with the client how well they are doing against the requirements. We do it in a workshop where we discuss what the "shall" means and the give it a percentage. It is a combination of self-audit and ISO 20000 class. The workshop is based on Jan's books. Works well. There are about 210 requirements as some shalls contain several things.

The should's are just guidance, not a requirement.

Aale

SPICE

JamesFinister — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 09:18:51 +0000

Ian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15504 for an overview of how ISO sees capability assessment

The focus of the current work on the standard is the removal of the ambiguity that arose from the original fast-tracking, and to align it with other ISO standards.

Jan,

If you are saying that ITIL and ISO 20000 both fail the customer because they don't focus on outcomes then I'm right behind you. That doesn't take anything away from either of them.

James

the ISO20000 books contain exactly that

jvbon — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:19:54 +0000

Yes Ian - we made the books to provide the reader with a better understanding of how ISO standards are constructed, and then expleined 20000 in detail. I the Roadmap book we also provided very practical guidance on how the conformance test could be approached, and how the project would run. And we added several detailed cases of companies that had actually achieved the certificate: they all answered a long list of questions covering many aspects of your certification project.
ISO20000 is all about proving that you deliver service quality and that you are in control of that delivery, and it doesn't matter how you achieved that: using ITIL, MOF, COBIT, ISO9000, or any other instrument.

ISO 20000 is not as complex as V3

aroos — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:54:53 +0000

Those books are useful. I'm treating the ISO 20000 introduction as the improved itil. I think it gives a useful framework and guidance to prcatitioners. A lot of it seems to be common sense, so that many organizations can find them to be ISO 20000 compliant on some itil processes (=functions) that they had not implemented as process but have functions for, like Availability, Capacity, Finance etc.

ISO 20000 adds some useful areas but is far more compact than the overarching V3. I also hope that there will not be an enhancement of the standard too soon.

This business needs an internationally accepted standard framework and for that purpose ISO is much better host than the greedy OGC, TSO, APMG trio. As such, ISO 20000 is an useful tool, slightly improved from V2 and much better than V3. Today there are 337 organizations that have an ISO 20000 certificate and the number is growing, a year ago there were 180.

Aale

Any takers - is there a definitive list of ISO20K requirements?

ianclayton — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:44:50 +0000

Has anyone out there in the Skeptic ether possess a definitive list of requirements that do, or should form the basis for an ISO20K audit... and how do you 'implement ISO20K'??? I thought this was a conformance test... a comparison.... is it not more a case of transforming existing practices so they satisfy a set list of 'shall dos' detailed within a standard?

Jan - does your book contain this list?